Everyone Admits AGI is Fake, Microsoft X OpenAI Situationship, iPhone App Payment Plans

Well, I don't think that date could have gone any worse Welcome to primary technology the show about the tech news that matters the Situationship between open AI and Microsoft has changed become a little more perilous We'll get into that plus anthropic in the Department of Defense may be getting back together The NSA is using mythos supposedly that model so powerful the public can't use it Google Employees are actually petitioning Sundar Pichai to not let the Pentagon use its AI. Musk and Altman are going at it in court right now. Plus we're gonna do a little follow up on John Ternes as Apple's new CEO and a ton more. This episode is exclusively brought to you by you, the members who support us directly. I'm one of your host, Stephen Robles, and joining me once again for the third time, developer Jason Atan. How's it going, Jason? I was like, wait, we've done way more than three episodes of this show. No, no, but this is the What are you talking about? third time you're developer, Jason Aten. That's it. ~ Thank you, it's a developing situation.

thank you. Well, do you have any idea? I know it was a very vague quote. Well, I don't think that date could have gone any worse. it's not? You know. It's not a vague quote. Yeah, isn't it? It's Mike Wazowski in Monster's Inc. You nailed the movie, it is MonsterZinc. Apparently it's Sully, but yes. Are you sure? I mean, that's what this janky movie website told me. It's supposedly Sully from MonsterZinc. All done. Alright, well you look that up. If you're watching either an Apple Podcast, YouTube, or Spotify, I have a new shirt. The Medieval Knight on the Polar Bear is now in the flesh. Like you can buy it on a shirt. Jason has one too, but he didn't wear it today. Wait, did I wear it? Actually, no, I have an ATP shirt on. probably did. Wow ~ She's got a ATP shirt on that's fine. Well anyway, I'll put a link to get it I just wanted to have a shirt. It's an embroidered logo. You can get the medieval knight on the polar bear. It's 20 bucks I think I make 50 cents if you buy a shirt. I don't care. It's not for profit It's literally just if you want a medieval knight riding a polar bear ~ to adorn on your person So that's that and we got some five-star review shoutouts and we got to talk about all the AI stuff and have a little bit of follow-up about John Ternes, I just want to mention. But five star review shout outs, Mark Big D from the UK. Loves the podcast. We have great chemistry and good banter, Jason. Look at that. RDB, the tech guy from the USA. Now this is this directly to you. I'm a huge Michigan fan and don't even live there. How do you live in Michigan but don't like the University of Michigan?

I'm sorry, well, I didn't hear anything you said. I know I heard exactly what you said. Why don't you like the big house? He said the big house is so historic.

I mean, that's not a good reason to like a school. Are you prepared to answer this question?

Okay, all right. All right, we'll move on. We'll move on. I'll adjacent think about that for next week. Podcast 728 from the USA, my head cut off in Apple Podcasts still makes them laugh. If you look at the bottom of our show, we have host pictures and my head's cut off and I'm not going to change it because I think it's hilarious too. And ~ they asked, has one ever a one star review stood out? And I say, no, we don't even read those. you know. except everyone knows that that's not actually true. I know. I do. Yeah, Stephen reads every single one of them. prints them out and he puts, yeah. that's right. The wall that you can't see in my camera shot is just covered in printed out reviews on a three by five cards. And then Meskin84 from the USA tabs on the top for the web browser phone and back left pocket. And he did mention the silence trimming. Listen, I've been struggling with Riverside. We talked about in the pre show. This episode is going to be great. It's going to be in sync. Silences are going to be silent, not cut off, and then you can use whatever smart speed you want. We're gonna do that. Yeah, yeah. And then finally Hokkaido North Country from Japan. Someone from Japan listens to the show and gave us five stars. And this was nice. They supported the show and then said there was a deluge of feeds that were then available to him, which was a little overwhelming, which I totally understand because listen, I have to post all those feeds every week. So I know how many different versions. So I just want to say one, this episode is not sponsored, but you still get bonus content. our pre-show and Primary Tech Daily. And if you just want all the content from one feed when you support the show, if you listen to the unedited feed, spoiler, it's actually pretty edited, so much so that it has chapters and chapter artwork, but it also is the pre-show. And since you have chapters everywhere, you could just listen to that version. If you don't want the intro, you could just skip it to the show start and you can go from there. So that's probably the one feed to rule them all, because you get the bonus content there as well. And the pre show today was 34 minutes long. So it's like you get a whole extra episode. was? It was, were talking about Jason's app, we were talking about my app that I am developing as well, or that Claude is developing, however you want to put it. Claude is in a closet somewhere developing an app. We don't know what's happening. Yeah, that's right. He's running on a Mac Mini. You know, should name, should we name our cloud agents? Should we personalize them? No, I'm not doing that. It's already called Claude. It's already pretty personalized. Yeah, I know, but I feel like... I'm gonna call mine Wazowski. Did you look it up? It was Mike was asked guy was right. It was? He was on a date with his girlfriend at Harry housings like your janky website That is, cannot defeat me. and now the problem is every time I search for it, it's the same janky website I go to. And so I think Google and Safari is just like, okay, I guess this guy loves this terrible website. We'll just keep, yeah, but anyway. No, what Google is thinking is it probably has AdWords on it and it's like, hey, if he's going to keep clicking on stuff. That's true. Yeah, that is true. All right. I want to give two app shoutouts These are super fun free apps from listeners of this show first one is chess piece This is a free app that you can get just on your iPhone piece is spelled P E A C E because it's meant to not stress you out but it's made to do like little chess puzzles and so it's like, you know as a puzzle game, but chess related and Yeah, I thought that was super fun. That was Sam who listens to the show made that app. I'll put a link there. And also Stuart, he actually made an app. This is going to be available May 2nd. So starting Saturday. This is a My Links app. It is also free to download. You can get it on the Mac and it's where you can have like your links, whatever you links you need for your social media, your YouTube channel, whatever. You can live in the menu bar on your Mac and he also has a app that works for it. But I like the menu bar Mac thing to quickly get to those links, whether it's your threads and blue sky and massadunlinks, your email addresses, your websites, all of that. And he was inspired by one of the shortcuts I built recently to just make it into an app. And I feel that's great. That's awesome. So shout out. All right. That's awesome.

We talked a lot about John Ternes last week and the Apple transition. Then you wrote an article and I loaded it in on ink.com so fast that I wasn't able to even able to read her mode so I can actually see the article without any pop ups Jason. I did it. That's the hack. You just got to load it fast enough and go into reader mode and look, here it is. Did it. Well, what did you say the five things were that every Apple Yeah.

fan hopes John Ternes will fix as CEO? I don't know, you didn't read it? I'll be honest. I read your other article, I don't remember, no, okay.

but then I saw it in Apple News and it only showed number five. No, it didn't. It took for some reason number five as the headline. And then it made the deck like all kind of jumbled up. I know as the headline, yeah. So I wasn't sure.

Anyway, I just think these are the things I just have been I did a little bit of research and I was like, what seems to be the stuff that people care about the most fix? Siri, obviously, right? Delivery Apple intelligence, Yep. Yep. right? They were people want someone who will be a little bit more decisive about products than maybe Jim Goodenough's make her Apple Hardware Company again, Yes.

which I will say I think Apple already. is a hardware company. I think the perception, however, is that it has become a services company. That's fair. That's where the growth is. But I think people would like Apple to just wow them with some hardware, which again, perspective is crazy because like the MacBook Pros right now are the most amazing. Like everything is great. Yeah, it's amazing. The MacBook Neo isn't I wrote an article about that. It's like insane. And yeah, actually, I took number two and three and wrote a whole other article about. But and then they want people to they want to take some bigger swings like Yeah.

Let's try something crazy. Like, let's actually ship some stuff that who knows. And then, you know, people don't seem to like Mac OS very much. And so they want to fix the software. So fix that, fix that. But that was five. I don't know. I don't understand that as much. there are. However, as someone who's working on an app, both on a liquid glass does some janky things to some stuff. Right?

And you're like, this is not good. And then I was like, well, why can't I figure this out on my iPhone app? And then I go to like my bank's app and I'm like, no, they have the same problem. They have the same issue. Right. So I'll put a link to those articles, the Apple News articles, so you can read them there. But I wanted to follow up because after your article talking about the five things we hope you change, I said last week in the episode, I was trying to articulate the decisiveness of Steve Jobs and how turnips might be similar. And I was thinking about how can we judge a CEO's decisiveness in a product lineup? And thinking about like Tim Cook has been able to arbiter several mature product lines like the iPhone is a mature product line the iPad is mature product line AirPods is getting there obviously the Mac and So we can kind of see what decisions Tim Cook has made as a CEO For product lines that have been around for 10 plus years like the iPhone the iPad these are all 10 plus year Yeah, even the watch. even the watch. Yeah, it's been 11 years So I thought why is it that? I feel and I think other people have said that Steve Jobs was a more decisive CEO because in retrospect, unfortunately, we didn't get to see Steve Jobs arbiter the iPhone as a mature product category. We had Steve Jobs for like the iPhone through 3GS, Phil Schiller announced the iPhone 4 and then that was it. And so we didn't get to see like how would have Steve Jobs, the speed of the iPhone innovation, how he might've affected that. And the one lineup, obviously the Mac lineup, You could say Steve Jobs was the arbiter for many years, although I do think for the years he was over the Mac, it was not the same kind of consumer product as it is today. It just wasn't, you know, right. Absolutely, you're right. It wasn't that pervasive. And so the one product category I was thinking the reason why I keep coming back to it is the iPod was the one category that Steve Jobs ushered in and was over long enough to see how he treats a product category. How would he approach innovation and decision making for a mature product over time? And I feel like iPod is the main example of that for Jobs. And so I'm going to include a link to this Wiki fandom article. But this is the iPod, you know, all the iPod models, basically. And I mentioned last week how, you know, Steve Jobs, the iPod Mini was selling like crazy. and then Steve Jobs killed it for the iPod Nano. And as you can see, the iPod Mini was around for two generations, and then the iPod Nano was around for seven, sold across, you know, all the way up to 2017. And so the iPod Nano was obviously the hit there. But one other example I thought of was like, what happens when Steve Jobs made a decision, they made a version of the iPod that wasn't great, what did they do? And I think two examples there are the iPod Shuffle that had like no buttons or anything. Like, if you were not familiar, there was the iPod Shuffle that was literally just like this silver stick. And I think it had a clip, like a built-in clip on it. Right.

And maybe there was like one button on the top, but it was not very popular or well received. And it lasted for like a year. You know, like they only made one version of that. There was no version two of the buttonless iPod Shuffle. And I think that was an example where they tried something, it didn't work, and they pivoted quickly. And... You you could call it that a failure or whatever, but they tried it. And then they went to like the actual button shuffle that lasted for multiple generations where you had like basically a click wheel, but on a clip. And that iPod shuffle, I actually had one of those where it was like a square. And I remember people would like, I don't know if it was that one or there was one with a screen that people would put like in a makeshift Apple watch holder or whatever. Cause they did, I think there was a screen version. think it was the later Nanos. So the iPod shuffle button list was one example. And then also the, was it the fat nano they call it, where it's like squat, you know what mean? you And I think they added like video playback on the squat nano. And that was another one where I think it was like a year maybe that they did that or maybe two at the most. And then it was like, all right, forget it. And so I feel like we could see across the iPod lineup, what it looks like to have a decisive CEO that's like, let's try this thing. And when it works like the iPod nano, Let's double down and we're going to make generations of this and it's going to be great. And if that doesn't do well, there's decisive to say, we're not trying that again. Let's try something different. And maybe the iPod hardware was easier to innovate quicker on, but I feel like that is what it means to be a decisive CEO across a mature product category. And one of the reasons I'm optimistic about Ternus. I want to say first of all that the fourth gen iPod Nano, which was like tall with a kind of a vertical window, Yay was one of my favorite products Apple ever made. I love that thing. It was great. That's a good one. ~ But I think that what people mean when they want a CEO to be more decisive, I think that's the wrong word. But what they really want is the CEO to have an opinion about the products in a way, Okay.

because I think the single best example of the angst that has been caused. Angst is not the right word because that's like self-inflicted anxiety sort of, but about the frustration with Apple's product lineup under Tim Cook has been things like the AirPods Max, which like don't get an upgrade. And then they get there like, we made an upgrade. All you did is swap the port to USB-C. Like you have no idea about what this should be more than this, right? That's an example. But an even better example is the butterfly keyboard. How did that thing stick around for as long as it stuck around? Right. through multiple levels of, we have to have a hardware repair program. like, no, just say this is broken, you have to fix it, you have to change what you're doing. By the next time we stand up on a stage and release a Mac laptop, it has to be fixed. It can never go back to being this bad again. That is what people like Steve Jobs would have done. Right. And Tim Cook just was not willing to make those kind of seems like Yeah, yeah, yeah.

he just didn't have that strong of opinion about it. And so he wasn't willing to make those kind of calls. It didn't register in his mind. This is super bad to the people who love these products the most. And so we need to make a change. And so that's, that is, think what people mean when they talk about it'd be nice to have a product person who's decisive. What they mean is we want a person who has an opinion about the products beyond just, I think we could put a notification in settings to sell people Apple care. And I think the risk associated with having an opinion and being decisive is something Tim Cook was averse to like if you look at the butterfly keyboard They tried for many years to make it work by doing slight tweaks like they literally brought a bunch of press We really got it this time and there was you know, We got it guys this time three times John Gruber mentioned I think it was on a recent dithering But like they brought a bunch of press people in and they said how we they put a membrane underneath the keys of the butterfly keyboard this way crumbs won't totally break it because that was the thing the butterfly keyboards and I think Tim Cook probably was calculating the amount of R &D they spent to make the butterfly keyboard how many they had in circulation and wanted to like sell those and not scratch it and then how much it would cost to switch to a new keyboard a year later I'm sure there would have been costs associated with that throwing away R &D maybe even scrapping keyboards swapping out keyboards of hardware that's has not sold yet, whatever. And that's probably a calculation that Steve Jobs would have made differently. He probably would have said the cost of selling bad keyboards for multiple years is higher than the cost of scrapping all this R &D because it's not just a monetary cost, it's also a mind share cost in the users of your products, the people who are buying it. And like, it got so bad to a point, the keyboards like, I remember Taika Waititi, director of like Thor Ragnarok, literally said on the carpet of one of the award shows, they asked him something and he was like, yeah, Apple's keyboards, they really gotta fix those. It's like, a director of Marvel movies is noticing how bad your keyboards you are and blasting you on the red carpet, this is a serious problem. And that's the decisiveness, that's what I say when I say decisiveness. Well, I think, yeah, sorry, just to close the loop on this, one of those terms I hate to say, but anyway, I think the real problem was that Johnny Ive had stronger opinions than Tim Cook did. And so Tim Cook, so you have these meetings where Tim Cook's like, we gotta fix this. People seem to not be really mad. And Johnny Ive is like, no, this is the way it should be. This is the form of what the keyboard should be. Aluminium.

We've gotta get this thing right. And Tim Cook's like, okay, mean, Johnny Ive, he's like the product guy, so like we should probably keep trying to do this. Instead of saying, no, I don't really care that you think that this is Right. the way it should be. What the way it should be is that our customers are happy with the keyboard because what they do with the keyboard is type on it while they're eating a sandwich. And if it stops working in that scenario, we haven't designed a good product. You can't be like, here's the perfect keyboard if you work in a clean room like that's not Apple's market share. Right, Thank you. That's exactly, I agree. I also love the idea of Johnny Ive being like a Groot character and always sitting in the office and whenever someone asks him a question he just says, aluminum, just in different inflations. Well, my 11 year or my I guess he's 14. Sorry, we have two sons. No, no, He just dropped three years. no, I was gonna say it was the other one. But it wasn't the other one. This is a 14 year old. Every question you ask him, he's in the phase where he just looks at you like, don't worry about it. He just feels, I just feel Johnny Ive every time you said like, Okay. Supremely confident. I got it. we got to fix the keyboard. He's like, don't worry about it. Actually, that did not sound British at all. I don't know what accent that was, I love it. but we're leaving it in. And I wanted to, in honor of the Fat Nano, I did want to show it. It was a third generation iPod Nano. This is what it looked like. And even though wasn't super popular, it's still good. And this thing's scratched up. I think that I've never... was the best feature of it was that it got a patina.

The iPod Nanos of the time definitely patinaed. All right, so there's a lot of AI news and how AI is interacting with the Department of Defense and we're actually gonna do our own little segment of Brendan Carr. We'll see if we can license that from the first cast. I think he said that. Yeah, I think he said we can do that. I think it's open source. think we're allowed to just syndicate it. Yeah. But the first big one, Microsoft and OpenAI amended their situationship, which OpenAI and Microsoft have been very intertwined. They previously had an agreement. where if OpenAI achieved AGI, artificial general intelligence, meaning Chachi Buti would be smarter than a human. There was no actual clear metric, and that was one of the weird things about this agreement was like, they're gonna put together a board of people who decide when AGI, and who is gonna be on that board, is it Beyonce, is it the Pope? Nobody knows. But they have notably removed that clause in the agreement. So AGI is now nowhere in this agreement. And we'll link the actual post. This is on Microsoft's blog, blogs.microsoft.com. But the main points is Microsoft remains, I'm reading from their post, remains OpenAI's primary cloud partner. OpenAI products will ship first on Azure, Microsoft's cloud service, unless Microsoft cannot and chooses not to support the necessary capabilities. So Microsoft is basically like, it will run on our service first, unless we don't want them to. That's what that sounds like, It's just the is that? first right of refusal. First right or refusal. And OpenAI can now serve all its products to customers across any cloud provider. So it seems like if OpenAI, and we're going to get to where they're going next. Yeah, six minutes later.

Six months later, they can offer somebody else second Microsoft will continue to have a license to open AI IP for models and products through 2032 and But Microsoft's license will now be non-exclusive So, okay So chat GPT and other models that can be licensed elsewhere three Microsoft will no longer pay a revenue share to open AI That's interesting. But fourth revenue share payments from open AI to Microsoft continue through 2030 independent of OpenAI's technology progress. So Microsoft not sharing revenue with OpenAI, but the inverse is true. OpenAI is still sharing revenue with Microsoft, which makes sense. They're using Azure servers to run a bunch of their stuff. So sure. Well, what really makes sense here is that Microsoft is getting money in exchange for untangling this really weird deal. very weird deal. So this is an interesting addendum to their situationship and I just want you to know you might read that word in other articles from major news outlets. I thought about it before I read any of those articles. I wanted to put situationship in the title. I just want to point that out there. Yeah, but what's really sorry, we're done. I just wanted to explain to our listeners what really is happening here. Well, I was going to well, what, basically what happened right after that is open AI made a deal with Amazon and open AI announced an expanded deal with Amazon that brings models, codecs and other tools to AWS. That was it. Yep. What's really happening here is Microsoft is like, they're never going to get to AGI with LLMs. So we don't really care about that anymore. What we'd rather have is money now. So just revenue share with us, right? You can go wherever you want because we're no, Yes.

the only reason that Microsoft cared about being exclusive and not allowing this technology to be used by any other partner is because they, because they were being convinced that there was going to be a scenario where it becomes AGI and Microsoft would continue to have a license. Microsoft and they didn't want anybody else to be able to have that. Microsoft still has a license. They can still use the technology through 2030, but they're like, we're not getting to AGI by then. LLMs are not going to do it. So why don't we just get, what do we want from this? OpenAI really wants to not be exclusive with us anymore. So if they're to pay us for that, that's fine. Like we'll take the money. We don't really care. We get to still use the stuff. Like this was probably the inevitable outcome where the deal just like that clause was so ambiguous that how are you ever going to know? if it had happened and now there's some clarity. We get money. There's clarity. think it's interesting that AGI is probably going to slowly dissipate from the conversation. I feel like Sam Altman has not been saying it as much just in the ether. Plus there's a whole court case going on right now between him and Elon Musk. We'll get to in a little bit. I also wanted to talk about or just mention, I think the hype marketing of AI has kind of reached a peak where in hype marketing, I would say like Anthropic and mythos saying this model is so powerful. We can't give it to the like the regular public You know like that definitely feels like hype marketing I think the AGI marketing that has existed the last like year is slowly quieting down and it does feel like now all the companies the AI brands Anthropic open AI Google perplexity now. It's like alright. We got to actually figure out how to make a business now We have to stop shooting or mentioning these like crazy, Yeah.

you know AGI things because I also so everyone was talking about codecs and we're gonna talk about the apps We're developing with AI later in the show, but everybody was talking about codecs because chat GPT released their codecs app It's an app on the Mac that's like separate from chat GPT and you can ask it to do Claude co-work type things And everybody was saying this thing is amazing. This app is incredible. It's gonna blow your mind Even federal give a teach a Mac stories. He was like codecs is the best computer use app I was like this sounds amazing. All right, so I downloaded it I ran codex, I'm running codex on a Mac mini. I was like, let's see what you can do, bro. That's literally what I told it. I said, said, codex, bro, let's see what you could do. Bro.

The first time I tried to tell it to use the computer, it failed. And then I was like, okay, well, that's cool. And then I, So not much, you can do not much. so not much, but then I was like, all right, if this is really mind blowing, there should probably be hundreds of YouTube videos of people showing codex, doing wild stuff. because I made my own video about cloud co-work and actual useful things you can do with it on a Mac. So I like, all right, let me go to YouTube. I searched for codex and I scroll for a few minutes and I'm like, all the videos out there right now, at least the ones that I found, it was showing codex, guess what? Doing coding stuff, doing development type work. And every video that seemed to be painting codex is this like everything app. As soon as I watched a few minutes of it, it basically all got back to. It's good at coding. Like that was kind of the bottom line every time I got to the the crux of the video and I was like I felt the hype in real time like I Hype Made me take action. I downloaded codecs to try it out I was even like maybe I to be paying $100 a month for Chatchamutee Let's see what's up. And then every time I and then when I dive into actually like do real things It just is not meeting the hype and I think that is becoming Pervasive across the spectrum. I think even maybe real people are feeling I think, okay, first of all, I want to say a few things. The hype cycle, the mythos thing. I mean, it is like the perfect, basically what they're saying is this heroin is so good, it will kill you. And people are going to give me some of that. Right. Yes. Yeah, Please take my money, give me some of that. yeah. How much? Where can I get it? I can't even imagine. There is a segment of people for whom that is the selling point. Like this is so good, it could kill you. Well, I have to try it. But I think that the real, like, I feel like, My I have been incredibly impressed by some of the things that these tools can do. I just think most people don't know what to do with them. And I think we're pretty jaded because the thing what the thing people really want to be able to do is to shout out their phone and have it like schedule appointments for them or like whatever. And we're we're just so far away from that. Just understand.

Like there's we're so far away from being like, hey, order me lunch. Right. Like I could barely get a person to do that. Yeah.

We've had this conversation before, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but that is that that's when people are like, my phone can use itself. That's what they mean. Or like, ~ shoot, could you reschedule my thing? What we want is the capabilities of a good human assistant in our phones. And we're so far away from that at this point. And so that's why it feels like the hype cycle is good. But like if what you want to do is to make an app, I promise you this will work like it'll do a great job. Yeah, making an app. Yeah. Yeah. Or I wanted to do research for me. I mean, I have to be smart enough to know when it fails and I have to be able to do the due diligence to check things. But it's a Amazing at that kind of stuff. And it's great at HTML, like the website projects that I've done, Yeah, and it's great at summarizing things, like it's It's a great somewhere in the things. like all of that language related stuff is just very good. But when you do get into the more advanced uses, even something like developing an app, it is work. Like it is not simply make me an app that does and then give it a sentence. Like it is going back and forth and like knowing where something is broken and telling it where to fix it. You know, it is a process as you have discovered and are discovering it. Yeah, I think I tried to check this and I copied my entire conversation with Claude code, because I'm using the app I'm not doing to them in the terminal. And it's like 100,000 lines long, like just just the conversation. Yeah, it's all right. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm also seeing I saw a reel the other day of a guy being like or his his girlfriend or wife. He was like, listen to how my whatever boyfriend uses chat GPT. He's like, if you're using chat GPT in 2026, you're a bum, you know, something like that. He was like, no, what I do is I get chat GPT to write a prompt that I give to Claude and then Claude does the work. Like, OK, that's cool, bro, I guess. Like, I don't know why. I mean, Claude can probably write the prompt too, but whatever. Yeah, and Claude, write a prompt that you could give yourself to do this, Right, exactly, You please. could probably do that, but I was like, okay, he thinks he cracked the code. And then, you know, it's got like 100,000s of views. Like, people are like eating this stuff up, Yeah, so he so. cracked the code of getting views on YouTube.

Right. Yeah, Instagram Reels. But yeah, Whatever. he did. Yeah, that was that. right, well, I'm to put this because it's also OpenAI. But the rumors are, guess what? The hardware device that they're working on might not be a PIN. Not going be a PIN, but it might actually be a phone, Jason. Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed that OpenAI might have made a phone? And guess what? It's not going to have apps because that would be dependent on app stores. It's going to have agents. Agents are going to do the things for you. Yeah, do you think that this is the thing that they're working on or do think this is a thing they're working on after the thing they've I feel like they, again, there's some realizations happening. AGI, it's like, okay, maybe it's not a thing. I think they're realizing like AI hardware devices, maybe not super popular. And this rumor originated from Ming-Chi Kuo, which you've probably heard that name a lot from like Apple leaks and rumors, varying degrees of accuracy, but this is where this originated from.

And this could, like you're saying, it could be a thing where like they're just trying it to see how it does. But but Jason.

Well, I guess what I'm getting at is if you read the second sentence, it says that the company might be working on a phone that doesn't say the device the company is working on with Johnny Ive is a phone, not an egg or whatever. So I'm just suggesting like, don't know what this actually means. Of course, they're probably working on a phone because at some point in the history of a tech company, everybody works on a phone. Metta worked on a phone. Amazon worked on a phone. I think Microsoft used to do phones like they bought Yes. You think they used to do- Nokia. I'm saying like What a burn! What a burn. Right? Google started making phones. Like, I'm just my point. just like this product, their Cisco phone sitting on people's desks somewhere. Sure, sure. Blackberry. You blame her? But my point is, everybody wants to make a phone at some point. So I don't know that this is saying that the device that they're working on. However, it's also entirely possible that they sat down and they realized, you know, we're making this device and it's going to sit on your desk next to your computer and your whatever. They did say it would exist with your phone, not that it would be dependent on it, but like it would be the third device that you'd have. The third device, yeah. But I think what happened is they realized that if you're put a device on your desk, one of the really useful features is that it should have a screen. And if it's going to have a screen, it might as well just be a phone. That's the thing. And you stole my next point. The companies that have tried a phone and failed. Sorry Like you said, the Facebook phone, this was 2013. I will link Dieter Bohn's review of the Facebook phone. It was called the HTC first. And so yeah, and this was before it was meta. This is literal Facebook making a phone. Yeah. It was super bad. That thing failed. Super bad. yeah, Amazon. The Fire Phone, it's there too. Also garbage. Also, Apple did a phone before it did the phone. Yeah, I'm just saying, You talking about the Motorola Rocker? Yeah, I mean that was, yeah. That's fair everybody's tried a phone. enough, fair enough. Also, wind, listen, let's pour one out, please. You might not agree. For Windows, I do not agree. Windows Phone 7. Because I actually thought it was pretty good. It just didn't have the apps. The only thing I can say about it is that it's better than Windows 11.

that's... Okay. And I'm gonna shout out, if anybody remembers this phone, I had this Windows phone, I literally, I was working at the travel company at the time, I took this phone to like Egypt because I didn't want to bring my iPhone because I thought I would lose it. And so I brought the Dell Venue Pro Windows phone. Dell made a phone, my gosh, this is, yeah, I remember that thing. This is... This is the... And it's a slider! This was a sl... I... I hope you left it in Egypt. Bury it under a pyramid. Jason, I wish I kept it. There's so much tech in this era where I was not working in this industry and that I would buy these silly gadgets, but I wasn't... I didn't have enough money to actually buy them and keep them, so I would sell them. And I wish I had not sold my Dell Venu Pro. Look at... Look at how... It looks so good! Look at how good this looks. Hardware was solid, that sliding mechanism never failed, it was a sliding, physical QWERTY keyboard running Windows Phone. Love that thing. Anyway, Yeah. I thought Windows Metro designed you, I thought it was alright. Please leave us a five star rating and review in Appapada, whether you agree or not, and just pour one out for Windows Phone. That's all. That's all I want. Did you ever have a Windows Mobile, like one of the StarTech, like side out sliding keyboards? No, I mean I had a You never had one of those? Motorola StarTek but it was not a Windows.

You really, oh, see, this is what started me down. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna go off on a very, very quick tangent here. I've had a Blackberry, I had a Palm Pre, I've had several Palms that weren't phones. I have a pump.

No, but the StarTAC Windows Mobile phone. I remember in college, it was 2005, and a friend of mine, he had the singular StarTAC Windows phone. It looked like this. This was it. It was like a slide. And this one actually not only slid out, but actually like tilted. Like the screen tilted this way you can really get down on some emails But it looked like they didn't ran windows mobile look at this Jason. ~ the nostalgia Sorry, I'm just I Wish I need to make that I'm gonna make that feel nothing.

your text tone. I feel nothing This made You me honestly like this started me on the path when I saw my friend using this which Two years later, he had the original iPhone. Also very jealous of that. ~ But I was like, this is amazing. And he had to spend three hours figuring out how to turn on the hotspot. This way, me on my Dell Axum. Do remember that? The Dell Axum PDA. Sorry. I didn't know this nostalgia bomb was going to be happening, but. Yeah, I know. I'm looking at the rundown and I know how much time we have left This was not in the rundown. This was not in and I'm like, we're never getting through this episode.

the rundown. All right, let's have some actual news again. Actually, before we do, we don't have any sponsors today. And so everybody gets an ad-free version, but we have sponsors from next week through August. So sponsors are coming back. But just want to take this moment to thank everyone who supports the show directly, including everyone who signed up at The Deal, which is literally still going on. And so thank you to all the members who support the show. And secondly, if you want to support the show and get an ad-free version for the rest of the episodes, Plus the unedited with the pre-show and bonus episodes and all the stuff check the link down in the show notes I want chapters promo code you can get it for two dollars fifty cents a month or twenty five dollars a year But thanks to everyone for supporting That's it. That's cool. All right, so I wanted to mention the White House Correspondents dinner there was a shooting and There was Joanna Stern was actually there of the tech journalism. She was there with the NBC and we're not gonna talk about that event specifically But in the days after, there's been a call, Donald Trump on Truth Social, saying that ABC needs to fire Jimmy Kimmel. Because before, two days before the shooting, he made a joke about Melania Trump in some image or video looking like a expectant widow. And so, not, I mean, horrible timing. He didn't know that was gonna happen at the White House dinner, I imagine. But yeah, looks like bad timing.

But Trump is demanding that ABC fire Jimmy Kimmel. Now if you remember, we've kind of done this exact scenario like a few months ago. I was like, haven't we done this one before? This is literally a copy paste situation where Trump was calling for Jimmy Kimmel to be fired, ABC took him off the air for at least a week or two, and Brendan Carr said a lot of things. And so this is where we are ~ syndicating the Brendan Carr's a dummy segment from the Vergecast. copyright to Neil Apatel and David Pierce. And we'll leave it to them to go in depth on this. But Brendan Carr at the FCC has now said Disney must file to renew their broadcast license, which wasn't supposed to, it wasn't set to renew till 2028. Disney had two more years. They are calling for Disney to renew its broadcast license now, presumably because Brendan Carr is going to threaten to not renew it unless they do something about Jimmy Kimmel. And we're recording the show a little early. It's actually Wednesday morning. Something might come out between now and Friday, which will point you to the actual Brendan Carr's Dummy podcast within a podcast on the Vergecast. They'll cover whatever changes. But yeah, this is not great, again. Yeah, think the, okay, there's a lot of things here. I'm gonna just try to avoid the politics of it all. Which is tough because, listen, Thank you. Thank you.

I just think in general we should, we probably can all agree that people trying to shoot up ballrooms super bad no matter what, okay? So let's set that apart. That's bad.

Kimmel's joke, honestly, like, I think he was, he was like, there's a picture of Melania and his point was.

I think he was making a joke about the age gap between the two of them and then Melania Trump looked really good in the photo. And a lot of photos of Donald Trump, like nowadays don't look like he's super healthy. So I think he's making a contrast between the two had nothing to do with what happened or any of those things. I don't disagree that it was probably an maybe close to insensitive, but we want our comedians being insensitive. Like that's the whole point, right? kind of the point. This was the actual skit by the way and this We want. Okay. Yeah. is the image that he's referring to. Yeah, OK. And we want our comedians being insensitive. Otherwise, what is even the point of having a late night show? So like that's we don't want them to be just like the down the middle neutral thing. There's also the fact that like the number of people who have like pointed out that, you know, Donald Trump has his own history of not exactly wishing well on people who have passed away. Right. And so actual bad things happen to someone. Donald Trump's not very nice. But the Brendan Carr is a dummy thing is pretty straightforward. Like You don't I think the excuse he was using is something to do with like they're investigating their DEI process policies or something like that. Correct. No, like you just know your boss is mad. And so you're going to just do the one thing you like literally have one thing that you can do. That's it. One thing you control broadcast licenses. broadcast license. That's it. That's your only lever that you have to pull on. And so they're going to do it. And so I don't I don't know what Disney is going to do. I kind of feel like Disney doesn't care that much. mean, like maybe I mean, they cared enough to maybe take Jimmy Kimmel off the air at least for a week.

We'll see, we'll see. mean, they have a new CEO, right? And we just heard that they decided they're not getting rid of ESPN. Maybe they're keeping ESPN so that in case ABC goes away, they keep their cable channel. But like, nobody's watching ABC on broadcast anyway. Like. Well, and this is the thing too, and they talk about this on the Vergecast a lot, the FCC has control over over-the-air broadcasts, namely cable TV. Well, they don't hold on just to be clear, they do not have control of the over the air broadcast, Not control. they have control of the airwaves that those broadcasts use, which is a very separate thing. And it's there should be a the entire point is those two things are distinct. They license broadcast spectrum to broadcasters. And those broadcasters have a First Amendment right to do whatever they will not whatever they want. But they you know, you can't use a broadcast over the air broadcast to show pornography or something like that, right? There are some standards. But the point is, because it goes into everyone's home and they don't want it to, Right, right, yeah. But they do not have control over what's on those broadcasts. But Brendan Carr thinks that he does because he has this one lever, which is the licenses so he can, it's a real nice channel you got there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it. Right. And I just, the one point to just keep remembering is that most people, just percentage-wise, are not watching this content on broadcast television. And the FCC and Brendan Carr does not have the ability to affect anything on the internet. And so YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, where a lot of this stuff, like that Jimmy Kimmel skit, it's got like four or five million views on YouTube. That would be unaffected by anything that the FCC does because they don't have influence over the internet. Also watching an ABC channel broadcast on YouTube TV or Hulu, which is owned by Disney. They have their own TV streaming service. Right. They have their own live streaming service. Right, exactly. Yeah, it's unaffected. So we will see what happens in the next few days, but tenuous. Tenuous. We will, here's the thing, we already know Brendan Carr is a dummy. We will know an awful lot about Disney in the next couple of days. That's a good point. That's a good point. So thank you. This has been a syndicated portion of Brendan Carr's a dummy podcast on a podcast. Fully admit, Ours was not as good as the VirgCast will be in two days.

go listen to that, but it's important. I wanted to mention it. also back to AI, Anthropic and the Department of Defense. If you have not been following the saga, Anthropic was deemed a supply chain risk because the Pentagon wanted to use Claude and Anthropic's AI models.

to do whatever they wanted. And Anthropix said, we need guardrails on mass surveillance of the American people and autonomous weapon control. Yeah, you can't kill people without a human being involved. They said, yeah, we need these guardrails. When Anthropic said we need those guardrails, the Department of Defense, Pete Hexeth said, well, we're going to deem you a supply chain risk. And they did. The US government literally deemed them a supply chain risk, which is the one thing they can do that would limit the ability of other corporations to use products from Anthropic, even companies like Apple and Google. Anthropic has sued. And so there is now a court case going through whether or not... They're actually a supply chain risk, whether that designation can stand. And in the meantime, everybody can keep using Claude how they want because it's being litigated and the companies can't be stopped right now by this litigation. Well, Axios had a scoop, which that the NSA is actually using anthropics mythos. You remember that model so powerful, the general public can't use it despite the supply chain risk designation. And so it seems as though even though the Pentagon and White House said we need to blacklist this company because of supply chain risk, it seems as though because they made a model that's so good, they're like, well, maybe we actually want to use you, even though we're not whatever. And so this Axios article and through others, it looks like the White House and the Department of Defense are trying to save some face and figure out how they can maneuver maybe not pushing so hard on the supply chain risk. designation that they've already stated and figure out how they can bring Anthropic back into the fold of the Department of Defense.

Yeah, the only thing I want to say about this is this is it. We live in a world right now that is entirely governed by theater. None of that, we are not governed in a world and I don't literally mean the government. I just mean in general, we are not governed in this world by serious people. In general, And I mean that in like every sense of that, like we talked about Sam Altman's letter. I don't think he was being a serious person when he posted like some of that stuff. We are just. Like it is so hard to take any of this seriously because it's all theater and that's we have not, you know, we've been experiencing it for a little while, but that is not the way the world has typically operated in the past. People typically operate like you can take someone at their word and you can reason through things and you have bad actors. It's just usually the bad actors were not in positions like everywhere. What I mean by bad actors, I just mean people who are not reliable narrators. Right. And so like Daria Amadei. I wouldn't say he's exactly a super reliable narrator, right? Pete Hagseth super, super not a reliable narrator. Like you cannot have it both ways. But the thing is, you can if there's no one who can stop Right. So, and I'll also throw one more name into the same situation, which is when Anthropoc was deemed a supply chain risk by the White House, two company, three companies rushed in to fill the void, the power vacuum. They were OpenAI, XAI, and Google. All three of them were like, we'll do it. We don't care how you use. Yeah, not serious people. And again, I think this goes to your point. It's like the supply chain risk designation. It's like a threat more than an actual ~ danger. Like this is a dangerous thing that we need to, It's a negotiating tactic. It's literally just a negotiating tactic. it's a negotiating tactic. Thank you. Right. And that's what all these things are. And Anthropic surely would want to deal with the US government for the money. Because remember, ~ none of these companies are profitable yet, except Google. Because AI is not Google's main business. But Anthropic, OpenAI, XAI, none of these companies are profitable. So any deal, That means money coming in is what they want slash need. And so when Anthropocles deemed the supply chain risk, Google was like, hey, we'll do it. And so much so that the Wall Street Journal reported just yesterday that Google cleared the Pentagon to use AI tools in classified settings, possibly even without the restrictions about mass surveillance and autonomous weapons. And the employees at Google are actually petitioning Sundar Pichai. I think there's a petition right now. There's like almost a thousand signers. It was like 900 something last count I saw but Google employees are literally petitioning soon to retire listen Hey, don't allow them to do this without any guardrails like please just put the guardrails in and this Like you're saying some of this is theater Some of this also like I wonder How dangerous is it? You know if people inside the company working at Google Don't want that their models being used in this way like what? you know, not to be like a doomsday-ish, but like, what is the risk? Like, what are they actually feeling internally about this? Is it just a moral thing? They don't think it should be used in this way, like for mass surveillance? Is it actually a danger thing? But again, it's the push and pull of the theater aspect and the threats versus just the money grab from the other side. It just doesn't feel like a good, good setup. Doesn't feel like a good Yeah, it doesn't seem good. None of it seems great. Yeah, so I I feel like that's important news like it's just what's going on out there I imagine like next election cycle, which would be you know, the next presidential election is 2028 Like AI has got to be a huge part of that campaign. I imagine two years from now All right, well let's move on to some lighter news. I'm curious your thoughts on this. Apple introduced a new App Store subscription model. So up until now, you you could pay for an app monthly. You can pay for an app annually and typically save a little money. Sometimes there are lifetime purchases. Well now there's another option. It's being tested in several countries, not the US yet. But this is a 12-month commitment subscription, meaning if you... don't want to pay the annual price of like $30 and you just want to pay the $3 a month, you can commit for a cheaper price and just pay that but commit to paying it for 12 months. Which feels like, I don't know, cell phone contract-ish? oh. No, it's Adobe. This is Adobe's model. It's like, well, you can pay monthly, but you've signed up for I don't like anything about this, Stephen. I didn't feel great about it either. I understand for developers maybe it would maybe it would create a better conversion to paying customers. But I also feel like if someone doesn't see the value in the app and wants to pay annually forcing them to pay monthly and then not be able to get out of that I feel like people would be madder. People would be more mad. Yeah, I don't I don't that's why I don't like anything about this is because the user experience and as you said for three weeks in a row, I'm apparently a developer. I just I don't think this is a good idea because you just create the possibility of a bad experience for people. And I mean, I know Apple is trying. Apple is definitely doing more than Adobe. Adobe has had to start doing more. Apple is at least trying to tell you that the subscription you're getting this price because you've agreed to pay this price for an entire year. But even still, I just don't like the idea that you are trying to lock someone into something like that and it has nothing to do with like the price difference. I mean, you're right. The idea is you charge $5 a month or $50 a year or hey, because you're getting two months for free essentially or somewhere in between there, you're to pay $4 a month or whatever. Like, I just don't think it's a I just I don't think it's a good idea. And I think it's a I understand why Apple is doing it because it is probably going to convert much better. I just don't think it's worth it. And also, there might be, again, talking about cost of things, like the five-star reviews in the middle of someone's 12-month cycle, if they can't get out of paying monthly, Yeah, absolutely. they're going to leave you a one-star review. And I imagine as developer, you can not have this feature on. I imagine you could turn this type of payment off. I would not be inclined to do this kind of thing. Well, I guarantee that you don't have to use this because I have set up some subscriptions. And let me tell you, it's the most onerous thing I've ever had to go through. And I've had to root canals. And this is like, it was figuring out how to do all of that was the hardest part of this entire experience. And so I guarantee you that this is not just going Yeah.

to be a thing that's automatic, you would have to create monthly subscription with a 12 month commitment and set a price for it and attach it to the app and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. That's fine. But so the good news is Apple is not going to just start offering your customers some kind of discount. Right, right, right, yeah. Yeah, so that was weird. Also, Elon Musk has sued OpenAI and the trial is now going on right now. Elon Musk actually took the witness stand earlier this week. Musk was a co-founder of OpenAI and he was claiming that Altman and co-founder Greg Brockman tricked him into giving the company money only to turn their backs on their aspirational goal. Elon Musk is apparently mad that they went into a for-profit structure. He feels like opening out was started to be, you know, very lofty humanitarian aspirational goals. And so he's suing. What is the word is looting? Just because he feels like. polluting a charity, I think he's saying. looting a charity. ~ That's what he claims. Elon Musk is claiming Sam Altman is looting a charity. And look, even though I'm paying for Bloomberg, look at this, look at this, Jason. Yeah, Elon Musk, who notably all the money he's ever given to charity are his own charities. That is a detail, yes. That is the thing. So anyway, he took the stand. He was, you know, Elon Musk-y on the stand. You can read the whole Verge article about it, but that case is going on right now amongst many other that OpenAI are in. Like, I think the New York Times and the OpenAI are still in a court case about copyright and all that kind of stuff, so we'll have to see how all that shakes out. And you wrote an article about the MacBook Neo. I didn't want to share. You've written a few. I've written a few lately, actually. Does MacBook Neo still do numbers? writing about the MacBook Neo. ~ I think there's still a lot of people who are very curious about it about the MacBook Neo. And so I did actually wrote two, two MacBook Neo stories in like the last five days or something like that. I, and I think that there's a lot of people, It's a hot product. It's a hot product.

one of them was like, I finally figured out who the MacBook Neo is for, right? Spoiler alert, all of you listening, it's great. Laptop buy one if you want, but it's not for you. Like that's like fine, buy the MacBook Air or whatever. Yeah. But I think that what the reason I wrote this article is I think it tells us a lot about we actually had this whole conversation. So I'll make this super quick about John Terneson having an opinion. Yeah.

What the trick is not how well are you able to figure out what to include in a product the compromises the trick is like how do you know that we can cut certain things because you could cut anything down and just offer junk. We've seen Windows PCs do this for a long time. Right. They're 500 bucks. They're junk. What was important is knowing the difference between where we shouldn't compromise. And so this laptop is made out of aluminum. They're reusing the iPad Air Magic keyboard essentially in this and people like that. It's not as nice as a MacBook Pro, Yeah, people like it. It's nice, but it's proven, it works. It's still a retina display, it's good.

right? It's not as good of a display. The trackpad is not as good, but it's a good track. Like they figured out where those compromises should be. And that's why I think that we should be optimistic about.

the ability of John Turner to continue to deliver because he seems to understand what those compromises should be. Yeah, exactly. That's good. All right, the last two things quickly. YouTube is testing an AI search function, which you would think it already has this, but this is actually going to show you like guided answers where if you wanted to plan a trip or whatever, I feel like I don't know why this is always the example that all of these things use is like, I'm going to plan a trip. Yeah. It's going to show you not only video results, but also just information about the trip and maybe like points of interest and things like that. And basically create this like whole search result report about it? I don't know. I don't know. It feels like they're trying to bring some Either of the search features of Google and Gemini into YouTube for some reason. Yeah, there. I don't know the reason that's always a demo though. I do understand it's because none of these product people ever plan their own trips. They all have assistants that do this for them. And so this feels like the overwhelming thing that they couldn't possibly figure Okay, that's fair.

out on their own. So what and everybody who watches this is like, are you kidding? I buy I'm the one who like, this is not actually hard. And I prefer to be the one who looks at Yeah. Yeah.

the flights and the hotel and the whatever to make sure it's where I want to stay. Yeah, fair enough. So yeah, that's the thing. And finally, Meta has made a deal for solar power at night, which shouldn't make sense, but it's with satellites. And it's going to beam sun rays from the satellites or whatever down to the Earth for solar power at night. We're to have data centers and solar power from space. There you go. I don't understand what any of this means, but it doesn't seem like a good idea. It seems bad. It seems bad to be either beaming sunlight at night What are you thinking, like a geostorm situation?

to places where the sunlight's not supposed to be, Well, it's not bright, it's not like light. or to be beaming 18,000 gigawatt hours of electricity from a satellite down to earth also seems bad. I feel like I've seen that movie before and it did not end well. It was Geostorm. But I also feel like, so they talk about this is not like visible light, it's not gonna make it bright. It also wouldn't hurt you if you were like direct hit with this beam, I guess, from something about the kind of light it is. How do they know?

They haven't done this yet. I mean, no, they haven't done it yet, but we know about light. Scientists know about light and stuff.

It's infrared light. I mean, it's got meta, meta's in the headline. It can't be good. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. Sort of. It's gonna be the metaverse, but no, anyway. Yeah. This is what they meant. Okay, great. All right, quick update for personal tech, your app. What update you wanna give? Yeah, yeah. It's still cruising along. hoping to, I'm hoping. Thank you to all of you who have been testing it. Your feedback has been super valuable. Even your Stephen, it has been very, Stephen doesn't really give me feedback as much as feature requests, Thank you. I have future requests. which is fine. I wrote them all down and it's right there. I have future requests. Some of the listeners have given me very useful feedback and this is why you beta test things because you can't possibly experience every edge case Yeah.

on your own. And so that's been really helpful both on the iPhone. There is an iPhone version of it. And then, and I'm The Mac version 1.0, once it makes it through app review, will be available to people. There'll be a free app. There is a subscription, not a 12 month commitment subscription. You have my word, I will not do that. There is an annual subscription option. Yes.

And then I'm hoping to have the iPhone version out sometime after that.

very exciting. I am running both the Mac version and the iPhone version. Last week you did not want to reveal the name. Do you want to reveal the name this week? yeah, it's the name of the app is contextually, which we haven't decided how to actually say. But Stephen thinks that that's how I should say it. So that's fine. It's it's one of those words that as I was trying to figure out the name, I was like, that's perfect. And then I started saying it. I'm like, I don't know how to say this word because it could be like Khan, No, it's contextly. Contextly. but it could be contextually or contextually. No, it's contextly. I don't know. It doesn't matter. That's the name of the app. ~ But yeah, it's it's been it's been a fun process. But more importantly, it literally is the app that I have wanted for a very long time. And if other people want it, You could use it as a notes app for free, like forever. Like just, you could put all your notes in it. You could do all the things and it would be super useful. That's great. But also there's some cool features to it if your brain works the way mine does. It is super fun and I highly recommend. So I'm running right now on Mac and on the iPhone and it'll be available soon. You'll hear about here, but it's, are you still accepting test flight people or you wanna? At this point, probably not. I appreciate everybody who's been willing, but it's not that I don't want it. It's just, just to be candid, like every time it's like the process of adding someone to the test flight gets kind of onerous and then, Yeah.

and then addressing like, ~ shoot, you're here. So anyway, so. Alright, well it'll be available soon-ish. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks at the latest. We'll announce it here, you'll hear about it. So just squashing all the last bugs. Next couple weeks of lateness. Very cool. Alright, I want to talk a little bit more about AI in the bonus episode because I have added some more MCP servers to Clawed and actually found some more use cases. But, last thing I'll mention here in the personal tech, something for me. I got a bigger stream deck. I don't know if you can see this, I see this. but... I will link a picture. I got the Stream Deck plus XL and I love it actually. I thought it would be too big and it'd be too many buttons Mm-hmm.

but here's the thing. I was using my smaller Stream Deck for both running some shortcuts and doing some audio hijack things and then I had to switch pages if I wanted to control my video switcher or have some other controls like CleanShotX. type things and I realized if I use the big one and Elgato sent me this big one to be clear I didn't buy the big one they sent it to me ~ but now that I'm using it I probably would have bought it because I don't have to page anything I don't have to switch profiles or switch pages every control that I want is now visible all the time and they're visually different enough where I have all like my video switcher controls in the bottom left all my scenes for filming and recording in the upper left yeah lower lower left is video switcher, upper left controls, and then upper right is like screenshots and primary tech daily shortcuts, and then lower right is Mac power user shortcuts. And everything I need is now just like right there, always ready to just hit a button and do it, and I kind of love it. I just want to say that. That's great. I just want to say that. So we're to go record a quick bonus episode, talk about some more AI tools, and if you'd like to hear that, get an ad-free version or hear the pre-show, primary tech daily, all those benefits. Click the I want chapters link down in the video show notes. You can get it for $2.50 a month or $25 a year. Leave us a five star rating and review in Apple Podcasts, pour one out for Windows Phone or whatever old tech that you would, that you remember fondly. Maybe you had an iPod Nano, one of the corpulent variety. Let us know in the five star review. Love to hear that as well. And you can watch us in Apple, YouTube, Spotify, or Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next time.